Of Coffee and Eddys

As many of you have noticed, November has come and gone without seeing an Espresso release. The main reason Espresso is still vaporware for you (unless you are a tester) is that we underestimated the amount of work that goes into documenting and polishing the inner workings of an extensible engine. CSSEdit was very much closed off like any traditional app, so exposing Espresso’s guts to the cruel outside world was uncharted territory for us. As a result, we’re only now approaching the point where we feel comfortable giving it to the general public. Stay tuned for more.

In CSSEdit related news, the “CSS editor that could” was honored with a Macworld Eddy. Many thanks to Macworld for an awesome end of 2008!

Any updates on CSSEdit development? Version 3?

Phillip Sauerbeck

Congrats on a well-deserved Eddy.

Jim Cook

Disappointing to be sure, this software is probably the most anticipated software release for me. Things might surpass it, except that Things is already available to the public.

But by the same token, I respect a company whose number one priority is to do it right. I hope that it’s not too long though!

Jt Hollister

You should update the ‘We plan to ship Espresso in November’ statement at the bottom of Espresso related pages, otherwise they would look appear as out of date.

Michaël

Great work guys. I’m thrilled with what I’m seeing and am eager to get my workflow optimized. Just to give you an idea of how this will make my life easier, these are the programs and windows I currently have to use to publish my sites:

Smultron with several tabs and at least one live preview window
CSSEdit with at least one live preview window
Cyberduck with at least 3 publish/transfer windows
Parallels with at least one IE window

I’d LOVE to be at the point where I can have one Espresso window and an ugly IE window. My workflow can’t wait!!

Rodney S.

You can definitely expect me to be switching from textmate when Espresso is released.

Arik Jones

Can’t wait for the final release of this app. Have been testing it for a few weeks now and the prospect of having a finished item with all features brought together is really exciting.

Derek

Happy to have some news about Espresso. :)
Congrats for the Macworld Eddy !

Jean-Christophe B.

I also cannot wait to have a final version :)

Without us holding you guys to it, what kind of guestimated date are you looking at?

Gerard Godin

What will be the relationship between Espresso and CSSEdit? Is CSSEdit included within Espresso, or will it be necessary to have both programs?

Andrew

I read between lines that the launch is at least 2 months delayed :-) Bought Coda meanwhile. But still curious to see some serious competition. Good luck!

Pepa

I went with Coda as well but I’ll certainly be checking back now and again once this product starts coming together. Good luck. :-)

Nate

I have almost te same workflow as Rodney

Programs I now run for webdesign:

- Smultron (there must be better free alternatives, if so, let me know!)
- CSS Edit and preview
- Firefox and Safari
- Citrix client (I primarely use it for e-mail and other windows based applications. it’s open so i use it to preview my designs in IE)
- Cyberduck

Would be great to see some of them go :)

Arne Vanhove

I currently use a mixture of Coda, CSSEdit and Transmit. So my hope is that Espresso will be the one tool that finally unifies my workflow. The problem is I’m not exactly clear on what features Espresso will offer. Will it have CSSEdit’s toolset bundled in? The screen caps on the Espresso page don’t seem to indicate this. And while clips are mentioned there’s no insight on to how you interface with them (Coda’s clips pane/window gets this right, in my opinion).

As such it’s quite possible that this app will either revolutionize my workflow or it will simply fall short of my needs. After all if I still need to use CSSEdit, I might as well keep using Coda. That said I won’t pass judgement until we get a feature complete beta (whenever that may be :P ). So for now, I’m here impatiently waiting with the rest of you. :-)

Joe Angrisano

I’m with Nate. Gotta start working with a new app to tame this workflow for a new project. Wish I could have waited longer for Espresso, but with no idea when this app is coming out — not even an estimate, as requested by numerous posters — had to move on. On to Coda.

Mike P

I’ve been writing to support about a CSSEdit license transfer for more than a week and haven’t received any responses. Are you guys on vacation? If not, please read your support emails and reply please. Thanks!

M

When I first caught wind of Espresso, I was very excited. That level of excitement doubled instantly when I heard it was being developed by the same team that did CSS Edit. But after months of not hearing anything about any kind of a time frame, I must admit that the buzz is dying on me. I’ve been coming to this site everyday — sometimes more than once a day — checking for updates, and [you] the developer posts a few words about it *maybe* every 4-5 weeks. What the heck is up with that? I just wish developers [like you] would put themselves in the shoes of their customers/fan base sometimes, and just keep us informed. I don’t care so much that an app is delayed in release because things got more complicated than originally thought. That happens all the time, and i’m sympathetic to it. But, hell, why taint the buzz of your own product by doing nothing more than remaining silent half the time? Other developers would kill to have the stage you are standing on, in front of a crowd of people that are basically holding their wallets out waiting to throw money at your app, and they’ve never even launched it. We all know [you] a developer wants nothing more than to release a mature, rock-solid, fantastic product quickly, but hell, how about a weekly or bi-weekly status update post, screen cast, or something, just out of respect for the masses that have showed so much interest in your work.

Dave

I do agree it is frustrating to hear nothing at all. And like yourself when I first heard about this app I was blown away, logging onto the website daily for any sign up an update. However now that we’re a bit into the extended and delayed development process I’m a bit less enthused. Don’t get me wrong, if a full featured Espresso beta were released today (or heck even announced) I’d still pounce on it. However based upon the development cycle I am a bit more wary of moving my workflow into this app no matter how good it is.

Again it’s not as much about being delayed, which just sometimes can’t be avoided, as it is being uninformed. As exited as I am about Espresso I still don’t know the full feature set nor do I know the relationship of CSSEdit with Espresso. In fact I’m assuming I’ll like this product based entirely on how much I love CSSEdit. If I had a beta to test or even some sort of blog post outlining features I’d be a lot more informed and a lot less needy. So I guess my point is a little more information could go a long way to keeping needy potential customers like myself off your back while you’re busy working. :-)

Joey

Come on guys, please give us at least an estimated release date. I’m really interested in Espresso but I need to pick an editor by the end of the year, please give us something to work with.

Rich

I totally agree with Dave. Very well said. When there’s no communication, people tend to form their own opinions. It’s human nature and you can’t blame them. On the other hand, people tend to be *very* understanding if they’re leveled with. Even a bi-monthly update to let people know you’re still alive and working on it would go a long way towards managing those opinions. It ain’t looking good at this point. As I’ve said before, saying nothing is the worst thing of all. Kind of makes you wonder if the train’s still on the tracks.

AK Staab

iam still waiting for an espresso, but i have to move on and so now i use coda a very nice tool. lets see when the headline for espresso is in the news … thanks for css edit, hope the next one is that hot again and works so fine … best wishes for christmas and maybe theyre is a espresso … :)

Zauberer Berlin

I agree 100% with the guy who said people are holding out their wallets but, by not keeping us informed, you’re essentially killing all of the hype surrounding this app. One new blog post per month is not enough to maintain a level of excitement in your product. I preordered Espresso based solely on my love for CSSEdit and have spent the last two months waiting patiently for a release. We are now almost halfway into December with NO new updates, NO information on CSSEdit integration, NO public beta, and NO estimated release date.

While you guys struggle to get Espresso out the door, Coda continues to improve: adding new features such as spell checking, find & replace across multiple files, and–most importantly–plugins. Everything Espresso promises to do, Coda is already doing (except maybe code folding, but I’m sure they’re working on that as we speak). I’m afraid if Espresso doesn’t come out of it’s rabbit hole soon, it’ll always be one step behind Coda.

It’s a shame that many of your potential customers are saying things like: “I’d love to keep waiting for Espresso, but I guess I’m going to have to move on to Coda.” And why shouldn’t they? Please MacRabbit, give people a reason to keep waiting!

Dan

Hey, I think you guys are doing a very bad marketing job. Can people wait for *…nothing…*?? No information equals nothing! Vaporware. I have tried Coda and even if it’s not perfect for the way I would like to work, it does work better than other products. I have tried to get in the beta program without avail. Very bad if summed with no information!! What to think? No comment!

Grant NEALE

Hey… don’t blame the developer. He has his priorities right. Focus on the app and docs and NOT the blog. Ok maybe the buzz is quiet now but if the app is really slick and good/powerfull then the buzz wil get louder when its ‘realease day’.

As a developer I understand the nature of developing and the way deadlines work (they always come too early :P ). I think its better to be supportive than to flame one who’s does it best to release great value apps.

(I admit that I would like to see more updates on the blog about the progress he’s making but… its not the end of the world you know… think about)

@dev: pls take your time and make it awesome!!!

Calvin

“Hey… don’t blame the developer. He has his priorities right. Focus on the app and docs and NOT the blog.”

Then why promote the product at all until it’s nearly ready? I’m sorry, I love CSSEdit and use it daily, but MacRabbit dropped the ball here. They announced Espresso early to create buzz and then they neglected to follow through on maintaining that buzz. So like it or not, they’ve earned the ire of some of their potential customers. Join our beta program! What beta program? Most people that applied never got an invite. Read about all the cool features! Except months will pass and we’ll never elaborate on any of them.

The simple fact is, they could have gotten Espresso the point where a feature complete beta was nearly ready and *then* announced the app. In this case the PR would then follow through with a real tangible product. As it stands I’m not sure how real Espresso is and MacRabbit’s silence isn’t helping to convince me.

JA

Also, can we get an estimate of pricing…

Tom

I hope this program comes together …. I am after a low cost xhtml, css standards compliant program. Like others the idea of one app doing these things that now require 3-4 programs keeps me checking back, i thought it was a “bunnie wabit”.

jim Stokes

I have to say that I totally agree with what has been said here. Creating such a buzz and then leaving enthusiastic people without a single piece of info is probably the best thing you could do to give new clients to Panic.
I’m using Coda and CSSEdit since about one year and a half. Both of them are good products. When I heard about Espresso, I immediatly thought it would be a kind of Coda with the effectiveness and some amazing features of CSSEdit. A lot of people are ready to listen carefully to everything you could announce, because they’re quite sure Espresso will be amazing, thanks to CSSEdit. We’re sure you’re working hard to make it awesome but there are guys here that won’t wait till the app is ready, whenever it may be. Even a word to say you’re still alive would be enough to reassure some of them.

Michaël

I’ve got just 4 days until my Coda trial expires which means you guys at MacRabbit have that long to convince me not to buy it instead of Espresso. At the very least I need estimates on a release date and pricing though some information on features would be nice. As a developer myself I understand the pressure you guys are under to get your application right from day one, but if you want my money you’ll have to prove to me that Espresso is worth the wait.

James

Here, here, James!

I’ve already purchased a number of seats of Coda for my group, but I’m ready to switch to Espresso simply on the merits of CSSEdit and what little we’ve been told/shown at macrabbit.com. Doesn’t seem an excessive request that MacRabbit give a shout to let us know they’re alive. I mean, really: this post will take me all of two minutes. How hard IS it?

I’ve been holding off buying more licenses of Coda, but I’m about 24 hours away from throwing my hat in with Panic for good. Coda’s already a great product, and the folks at Panic are very professional–they’re continually improving their software and they seem to really truly appreciate their customers. They’ve earned my loyalty.

The clock’s ticking….

Bryan

As much as Espresso’s (presumed) live preview window and CSS editing features would really, really tempt me to abandon Coda, I can’t say for certain that I’m willing to jump ship anymore. While Coda may have its faults, I know that Panic is a responsive developer committed to making Coda better. To me that sends a strong signal. Especially considering an app like Coda occupies a very integral part of my workflow.

With that said, if an Espresso beta does make an appearance this week I’ll try it. After all I’ve wasted enough of my life checking this website for even the slightest bit of news. But I suspect it will take a considerable effort on the part of MacRabbit to convince me to base my workflow on this app – no matter how good it is.

Joey

It is much appreciated that you have given us an update. I, personally, use Coda for day-to-day development and I have already purchased Espresso on the merits of CSSEdit. That being said, I’m also working on Python & Django Sugars and a network management and deployment tool I’m developing on the side. I am quite vested in Espresso at this point despite its lack of stability and inability to quit at random points in time (usually only when Coda is running, actually).

Getting to the point: When will we see a real, defined and non-vaporware features list aside from some of the high-level stuff I’ve seen on Espresso site?

I know, without a doubt, you are fantastic developers and there is a certain amount of pride a developer takes when exposing his code but try to be less concerned with that, please! Changes are expected at this point and on the road to 1.0. That’s what its all about with major releases! Oh, and be sure to make it possible to disable Live Preview for developers that aren’t editing live or want nothing to do with such capabilities (i.e. me)

And, please release the next iteration soon! I want to get a better idea of what I’m working with in terms of extending the environment and its core workflow before I move forward with my sugars.

THANKS!

thom

Wow. All this feedback from customers ready to throw money you–and not one peep in response.

Goodbye, MacRabbit. I’ll be over at Panic.

Bryan

Yeah, see you at Panic, Bryan, Joey, James, Michael, (and many others). I bought Coda a few weeks ago, LOVE it, and you will likely as well. It isn’t perfect (what is?), but Panic is *extremely* responsive, whether they’re communicating on their website, their Google forum, trouble tickets, or frequent dot releases. The key is that they *try*, and that means Coda gets better all the time. The community Panic has built is unreal. It is odd that MacRabbit has nothing to say. Income is literally turning on its heel and going next door. It’s bizarre! I know I’d at least post a sincere message of apology with a best-guess timeframe for a beta release. Oh, and by the way, actually send everyone a beta who took their precious time to sign up for testing! It could only help. Let’s hope there wasn’t some sort of personal tragedy, which would be awful, of course. I work on a very small team of developers and one of the main developers passed away recently. Some of our customers got really livid that we were missing our deadlines. They felt horrible when they learned the reason. So I sincerely hope this isn’t what’s going on at MacRabbit.

AK Staab

Yes, it would be nice to send a beta to the people who have actually filled out the form to test your product.

Joseph

Hey guys. Just to clear things up here. The product has been in beta for a while. It was made clear that only so many people would be selected. I am one of the fortunate people who were selected which is why having used the beta I am happy to wait a couple more days. I also think we need to remember that Panic have an entire team of people and they don’t even have a blog. I do appreciate everyone’s frustrations but I don’t think we should be forming a linch mob quite yet! Patience has its rewards! :-)

Derek

The beta has been available for some time, but it was only preview release for people working on sugars. Everyone else would’ve found it practically useless since it was stripped down and featureless. Now that the extensible core is complete, they’ll probably release a public beta within a week or two. Anyone thinking of switching to Coda may want to wait just a little bit longer.

Dan

Don’t misunderstand me, I’m already using Coda since months, because it is the *already available* application that best suits my needs. If Espresso comes out of it’s rabbit hole, as Dan said, and if it’s better than Coda, than maybe I’d switch to it.
But, as many people said, it is very disappointing to have no info, not even a single word. Everybody here would understand if Espresso had to be delayed. MacRabbit has no reason to fear huge potential customer losses with such news. Bad news are better than no news at all. People just want to know what’s going on, otherwise they’ll form their own opinions, which may be bad for Espresso or MacRabbit’s currently excellent reputation.

Michaël

Please give a update of how long you think it will be for the release? I just got a macbook pro and I’m holding off of buying textmate for this application, but I can’t wait to long.

chris

I just got an email from MacRabbit with a link for the latest preview of Espresso, but this version is apparently crippled and most of the features don’t work. This may be great for developing sugars, but I need to see what the base application can do. I’m interested in what few features are enabled, but I need more to convince me to wait for this app. Best of luck to the guys at MacRabbit, but I’m buying Coda right now.

James

I’m lucky to be able to have the latest preview version. I have both Coda and Dreamweaver but this little app is by far the most usable for me. I mainly work with drupal websites and code folding and the really useful sidebar navigator are a life saver. I can’t wait for a PHP sugar. I’m aware it’s only a preview version and I can’t wait for the real thing. Coda’s DOM inspector is no match for mac rabbit’s sidebar navigator. This one is actually usable :)

On the communication side, I think the mac rabbit team could’ve done better. However, I think it’s safe to assume that a public beta will be online soon and you’ll all get a taste of this beautiful app.

Radu

Looking at the comments on this blog post, it’s stupid and downright unprofessional for you to let this continue. You have a ton of people begging you for one little peep of information, just to let them know you’re alive, and you refuse to even post a “Sorry for the lack of communication, working hard on development”. That is UNFORGIVABLE (unless you really are dead, in which case I’m very sorry to hear that).

Unless Espresso is really cheap, I’m going to have a really tough time deciding whether I want to put money into it at this point. Is this how your support is? Will I send email after email and never get a response if something goes wrong? Will you ever update it again after you release it (IF you ever release it)? How long will I have to wait for that update? 6 months? A year?

What the hell?! You need to say something RIGHT NOW!!!

Jt Hollister

Excellent points, JT. Besides the initial release of the product, you’re right that it’s only logical to question communication in general whether it be support responses or minor updates. I agree that when you purchase software, you’re investing in the relationship you will have with the company. In these tough times, one has to invest carefully, for sure. Again, great post.

AK Staab

As it turns out, there is a new plugin under development for Coda called Lively that gives Coda a dedicated live preview window. This should ultimately allow live CSS/code editing from within Coda, minimizing my need for CSSEdit. And as a dedicated live preview window was one of the main reasons I was impatiently following the development of Espresso, it should stop me from reloading this page daily waiting for any sort of update.

Anyway, best of luck to the MacRabbit team. I’ll be sure to check back once Espresso matures into a shipping product.

Joey

Everyone needs to calm down and stop begging for information. Let’s give the Macrabbit team some time to get their product out the door. CSSEdit is an excellent piece of software and I expect Espresso to be equally as good. I’d much rather have the team put out a good product that respond to obnoxious commenters. I think Macrabbit has their priorities right. Keep up the good work Macrabbit and thanks for the update!

RM

RM, not responding to comments is the worst thing they could do from a business standpoint. Look at how many sales may be lost because they couldn’t take a few minutes out of their day to post a quick update and answer some questions. I’m sure the people at Panic would love to read these comments.

Nene

Hmm…I feel like they’re going to release on Christmas or something. I mean, has anyone counted the “I went with Coda instead” comments. I think the loss in revenue is up in the thousands by now.

No one is asking for a release as much as they’re asking for just an update, a screenshot, something.

Arik Jones

@RM: Its not that we’re “begging” for information. Its just that some of us need/want to decide on a app now and are looking for more information to help us make a decision. The people at MacRabbit have decided to be reclusive and not speak up about their app. Whatever their reasons for doing this it has turned a lot of people off of Espresso at least for the time being. I myself have purchased a Coda license because I know it’s features will fill my needs, I don’t have to guess/hope. Now to get me to buy Espresso, the people at MacRabbit will not only have to make an excellent app, they’ll have to make it significantly better than Coda. They’re making their jobs harder by staying silent.

James

I must say I am a bit disappointed. I’ve been using Smultron, which is a free open-source text editor, but I wanted a better one to use, so I did the trial for TextMate, which was ok. Then I ran across Coda and did that trial and I really like that program. I read about Espresso while roaming the Macrabbit site and thought I better hold off on purchasing a Coda license until I try out Espresso because it looks like this might be the program for me. I signed up to be a beta-tester, but never got an invite (disappointment #1) and then the so-called launch date of November came and went (disappointment #2). Then there was no updates on the blog regarding Espresso. The anticipation is nerve-wrecking. I’m hoping you guys at Macrabbit will give us some concrete dates and pricing.

Naomi "DigitalFanGirl"

I tried coda, I personally don’t like it. However, I do have full faith in Jan and his forthcoming product. So, I just pre-ordered espresso and will stick with TextMate + CSSEdit until espresso is released.

How is the delay of this product so critical to you people that you’re having brain aneurysms because of it’s delay? Are you just completely halting your HTML/CSS/Coding work until this product is released? Can’t you just use what you have until it’s ready? And… if you haven’t purchased any software yet… which it appears some of you haven’t… go get Smultron (free) do some development and wait until every product you’re considering is available. If you can’t wait… and you like Coda… then buy Coda. I don’t see how ranting in the comments of MacRabbit’s blog is going to help.

I admit, I’d like to be using Espresso now, but I can certainly wait until MacRabbit put’s its seal of approval on a product they are proud of. Good luck to the complainers, not sure how you get any work done. :)

dizastor

Naomi, I know how you feel. I’ve been using SKEdit (which is a great program btw, and highly underrated) until I tried Coda and got hooked on the “one window” approach. Just when I was about to purchase a license, Mac Rabbit announces Espresso with a November release date. So I decided to wait. Unfortunately, my Coda trial is now expired and there’s still no sign of Espresso. Without a release date, I don’t know what I should do. Should I purchase Coda or keep waiting for something that may or may not be slightly better!? I’m certainly not going to buy both. It’s really unfair to leave customers hanging like this. I’m giving them until the end of the month. If Espresso isn’t out by then, Coda wins another $99.

Dominic

For those of you who pre-ordered it, how/where did you pre-order and what is the price?

Nene

@Nene you can buy Espresso at /store/espresso/

Kai

“Should I purchase Coda or keep waiting for something that may or may not be slightly better!?”

Based on the proposed UI and feature set I’d say that Espresso is the stronger application. It’s more intuitive and has many features that Coda is sorely lacking. However if you were to also base your purchase on the company, the community and the support, I’d suggest Coda. Panic has been *fantastic* when it comes to updates and support. Development is moving along briskly and they listen to feedback. I sent just one message regarding a minor UI issue and it was addressed the next build. They have a fairly fresh website, an active Google Groups community (where the developer participates) and an active support email address.

So it all boils down to what you want out of the application. I use the Adobe CS4 suite even though I know the developer really doesn’t care what I have to say. Adobe isn’t going to listen to my feedback, my bug requests will go unanswered and they’re never going to send me updates outlining the direction of their products. Heck, I’ll be lucky if they respond to my support requests. So why do I continue to use their software? Because it meets my needs. Sometimes it’s as simple as that.

Joey

Thanks for the link Kai. So, with the special pre-order discount, Espresso costs roughly $80 USD. CSSEdit users can get an additional $10 off, bringing the price down to $70. I guess it’s safe to assume the price will jump back up to around $100 when Espresso ships (making it the same price as Coda).

Nene

Funny. I found out about Espresso just right now! Hopefully I don’t have to wait as long as you guys.

Until then, this might ease the pain: http://www.aptana.com/

I’ve been using it instead of Coda and those free text editors, which I could never get my head around since I’m already used to eclipse.

toxicvarn90

Another day, another whole lot of aggravating silence. Unbelievable. A high school student could run MacRabbit’s PR more effectively. Give us a G-damn ballpark date and price for gosh sakes.

Dave

Please have an extra 24 hours of patience, people :)

Jan Van Boghout

@Dave, check the link that Kai posted for the price. As for a date, I guess we’ll know something 24 hours from now…

Dan